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by douglaschick21 from Greensboro

Last Post 62 days, 14 hours Ago


Stimulus Package Money Trail -- Douglas ChickGovernment Rebate Check Money Trail

1. The Feds send every tax payer a $600 rebate.
2. 
Taxpayers purchase merchandise made in China.
3.
Taxpayers purchase gas from the Arabs.
4.
Taxpayers purchase fruit and vegetables from Mexico, Honduras.
5. Taxpayers purchase cars from Japan. 

 
What part of the $600 actually stimulates the American Economy? 

17 Comments |  Add a Comment

Member Comments Total Comments: 17
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Tiggersmommy read my blog view my photos
May 19, 2008 | 3:07 PM

Good point!

bleechers read my blog view my photos
May 19, 2008 | 3:31 PM

Not a good point. An emotional point, yes; a demagogic point, certainly; but not a thoroughly examined one.

That money is filtered through many in the US, then comes back as investments.

How many times does it need to be noted that trade deficits are not necessarily bad to have? The US ran consecutive trade surpluses during the Great Depression. Prices also dropped. That is not how you measure economic activity.

One of the reasons gasoline prices has jumped (and oil prices) is the decline in the value of the dollar. There are inverse relationships between the value of the dollar and trade. If the dollar is too high against other currencies, it hurts US trade because it makes our goods too expensive. The reverse is thus true.

Good monetary policy seeks a level for the dollar that allows the US to sell goods and services at a reasonable price while allowing Americans to buy imports at a reasonable price. When the dollar is too high the press screams about exports; when it's too low they scream about imports. They get away with this because economics is not taught in this country.

This post ignores the velocity of money, the impact on retail, foreign investment, the number of jobs dependent on imports, the increase in personal savings, etc.

If all the money we spend on Chinese goods and Arab oil is going overseas, how come Exxon and Wal-Mart are doing so well at the retail level?

bleechers read my blog view my photos
May 19, 2008 | 3:32 PM

That's "have jumped."

Axekick read my blog view my photos
May 19, 2008 | 11:05 PM

All is well you all, the AAM cutting workers pay by 10 dollar an hour is ok Wal-mart going up on its already low food prices is ok and we all know Exxon is just raising prices so they can have more money to research alternative power sources. Hey while you are looking for a job go to wall street with all that investing going on somebody has to sweep up all the bits of paper on the floor at closing, or better yet we can all become stock brokers to handle the increase in investment activity! And thanks to our big tax and tariff government that Ok’ed giving RF Micro the tax payer’s money to locate here, then they came back crying for more money and the tax payers were forced to give them more! Too bad are mean old against business government didn’t step in before they taxed us so RF Micro can run to China I guess we didn’t bend over far enough. The Fat lady is tuning up. But leechers is right look at how wonderful we have it after 20 years of good sound republican global economics. Boy my morale is high how bout yours?

bleechers read my blog view my photos
May 20, 2008 | 7:10 AM

So your solution would be to tax us and the companies more... regulate them more... and generally hand over our lives to the government.

Yeah, that's always worked out. Do you have any idea how economies work or how trade works? Or would rather just scare people with anecdotes?

You can demagogue this issue (as you do all issues) but history and the facts are simply not on your side. We need massive tax cuts for individuals and for companies. We need more free trade agreements. We need more freedom and less government.

Do you want the government to set prices? They tried in the 70s to disastrous results. Do you want the government to set wages? Ditto.

Do you want high tariffs? That worked great during the 30s. Do you want to tax oil profits excessively? That really worked out for Jimmy Carter.

You want the government to run your life. Fine. Move to China. You'll get your nationalized health care, your high tariffs and your government control of industry and wages. Just another "worker's paradise."

The slaves had "free" housing and "free" health care too.

Axekick read my blog view my photos
May 20, 2008 | 9:40 PM

Since I have never been unemployed since I started work and I'm assuming my net worth is well above yours that would lead me to think my economics are more sound than yours, granted I'm older and have been in the work force longer. My solution would be real fair trade agreements if china forces other countries to manufacture products in their country in order to do business there thus creating jobs, well lets have china do the same here that is not unreasonable. Since the global economy places taxes and tariff on goods coming in their country produced by American workers thus driving the price of those products up lets do the same here that is one of the ways to make buying American made products fair and balanced! Tell me what mental slaves have because you boy are a mental slave. We moving to china and you are going too you just are not smart enough to realize it! We need to cut the tax of the Iraq war I agree with you there!

Axekick read my blog view my photos
May 20, 2008 | 9:47 PM

You complain about your own government placing taxes on business well you need to research the conditions China places on not just American businesses but other countries too that do business there, so you can call it demagogue, scare, anecdotes if you like but it blows holes in your contention that companies are moving to china because of big government here I don't believe the hype son!

bleechers read my blog view my photos
May 21, 2008 | 12:34 PM

People who have been unemployed are thus "less sound" in their understanding of economics? That statement is so ignorant and illogical I won't comment further on it.

The difference between our perspectives is that my positions are based on history and sound economic theory. Yours are appeals to emotion and anecdotes. You have an agenda and no amount of facts will shift you.

I guess anybody who lost a job due to NAFTA (like I did) was really just ignorant of sound economic policy? That's your contention?

"Fair Trade" is a disastrous policy and has never worked. The Smoot-Hawley tariffs (begun in 1929 and enacted in 1930) in part threw the US and the world into Depression as trade wars started. The tariff was created to "protect American workers" (since millions lost their jobs, I guess those who kept theirs were more "sound" in their economic understanding, right?).

The US ran trade surpluses for 9 of the next 10 years. What a smashing victory for high tariffs! A bunch of ignorant economist lost their jobs, but we had a trade surplus! Rejoice!

That is not to say that tariffs can never play an economic role, but in the world today, the US has no need for any sizable tariffs. China needs them because it is essentially a third world nation. If it ever allows a middle class to grow, it will reduce tariffs.

bleechers read my blog view my photos
May 21, 2008 | 12:48 PM

China enslaves it people (with the powers you want to grant our government). It has a population constantly on the brink of starvation. It can produce goods at lower costs, but from where it starts, even the lower wages are an improvement. US companies profit from a more capitalistic China (which it has become since it woke up to that reality in the 70s... the Democrats still don't get it).

China's tariffs are primarily aimed at protecting itself from cheaper goods from its poor neighbors. The Chinese economy doesn't demand much from the US. The US market that probably would benefit from lower Chinese tariffs would be the food market. But since the government tells people where to live, where to work, where to go to school (if at all), when to get health care and what and how much much to eat (see: Obama's platform), it can control that demand.

China is a socialist nation. Most of its industries are nationalized. It only prospers as it allows more liberty and moves closer to capitalism. It is your contentions that fall apart. As long as China remains in the "Obama Model" for its government, its people will continue to live in mud huts and starve. As she moves towards capitalism and free trade, she will prosper.

gadget410 read my blog view my photos
May 21, 2008 | 3:08 PM

Axe, I have to agree with bleechers on the interest of American companies not having to meet the same environmental standards enforced by the EPA. China doesn't have the same soil and water protection laws, which enables a business to produce a product much cheaper than it would be able to in the U.S. While this is a foolish way to go many industries are figuring make a lot of money now and then leave or shut down if their laws ever force them to "clean up"
Here is a piece of the article on water resources.

Water pollution in China is a very serious problem. According to 1990 statistics, the total sewage discharged was 35.4 billion tons (24.9 billion tons from industry and 10.5 billion tons from life use). Most of this polluted water was discharged into waters directly or indirectly without treatment. According to data from the Food Peasant Organization of the United Nations, of the 50,000 km of rivers in China, 80 percent are polluted and do not meet water quality standards for fishing use. Some rivers cannot even be used to irrigate the farmland. Such rivers are not only unusable but pollute the groundwater. According to “Monitoring of Water Environment in China,” the farmland irrigated by sewage will be up from 4.2 to 4.4 million hm2 by 2000. Four big rivers in northern China (Haihe, Liaohe, Yellow and Huaihe) account for 85 percent of the total area irrigated by polluted water.

Pollutants can be accumulated in the crops and impair one’s health. Currently, in the Yellow River drainage area within Shanxi province it was discovered that the content of lead and chrom

gadget410 read my blog view my photos
May 21, 2008 | 3:09 PM

Pollutants can be accumulated in the crops and impair one’s health. Currently, in the Yellow River drainage area within Shanxi province it was discovered that the content of lead and chromium are above standards. Cabbages grown in the area also were found to contain chromium. In addition, pesticides and chemical combinations used by farmers enter into aquifers through the leaching and infiltration of rain and surface water.

gstrader read my blog view my photos
May 21, 2008 | 7:27 PM

I personally in favor of eliminating all taxation, above that called for to provide for the National Defense. (unheard of since the 1700s)

At that time if one were elected to office, they were expected to pay their own way. (It was an honor to serve your country)...

That would never happen now, but we really need massive government overhaul. We also need a fair tax system.

In as much as I know that the IRS will collect back the puny 600 dollars they are sending to me, I think I would be better off if they just kept that money.

Axekick read my blog view my photos
May 22, 2008 | 5:43 AM

I'm ignorant and illogical and I also made to much money last year for my family to receive a stimulus check, I won't comment further on that.
When a company goes to china and spends billions building state of the art facilities which they will never really own and spend more money bowing to china than it would take to adhere to government sanctioned healthy environmental standards which they pass that cost on down to the consumer well I just can't buy your arguments, but it is ironic that we run all over the world spreading democracy and protecting democracy and our way of life yet we do business with countries as you pointed out bleechers that enslaves it’s people. The bad air does not just hover over china that fact alone shows how greedy some folks are, to gain wealth and sacrifice health pollution effects us all home and abroad. I found this interesting Sony is on the verge of bankruptcy if it does not sell the Sears Tower if has struggled to find tenets many of which have moved headquarters overseas, like the saying goes for every action there is a complete and opposite reaction!

bleechers read my blog view my photos
May 22, 2008 | 7:12 AM

By your logic, you must then believe that Dick Cheney is an economic genius. Let's put the Obama system to work... since you're a "winner of life's lottery" I'll send you my medical bills and insurance premium bills and you can pay them for me. Exxon can't confiscate your property or your wealth, but the government can... and will.

Hey, if you want me to agree that individuals and companies dealing with and in China have made some ethical and moral compromises, I am right there with you. When Clinton sold US missile technology to the Communists I was appalled. Great leftist companies like Google provide the Communist with search and site listings from all its citizens.

I saw recently on the History Channel that 6000 coal workers die each year in China; primarily because it takes 25 Chinese workers to produce what one US worker can produce. Why? Because capitalism leads to such improvements. What many decry as threats to US jobs is merely a system that produces safer, more efficient ways of doing things.

That is what free trade accomplishes.

My concern is that you cannot see that if we hand over our freedom of choice (health care, housing, employment, etc.) to our government, they will treat us as the Chinese government treats its people. The Communists came to power on the Democratic Party platform, promising mandated wages, universal health care, public housing and wealth redistribution. It only cost them their liberties (and they never realized the promises).

Mao was praised by American Leftists (as were Stalin and Ho Chi Mihn). If you don't wake up to the

bleechers read my blog view my photos
May 22, 2008 | 7:13 AM

Mao was praised by American Leftists (as were Stalin and Ho Chi Mihn). If you don't wake up to the threat government poses, you won't have to move to China, you'll have it right here.

Axekick read my blog view my photos
May 22, 2008 | 9:42 PM

I got to spend some time this week with a mentor of mine a 67 year old retired engineer, we were talking about the fact that Honda, Toyota, and now Kia have or are building plants and manufacturing automobiles in the United States while our auto makers are doing just the opposite. My friend made an interesting point Americans can only see today or at best tomorrow while many foreigners see 10 years down the road. The interesting point was that the high cost of fuel will bring the auto makers back home because the savings made from cheap labor will not offset the high cost of shipping the products back here, because the fact remains we are the ones buying the cars and trucks. It cost on avg. now 1,200$ to fill up a tractor trailer and many independents are going bankrupt so the railroad industry is picking up and who owns the railroads now? The Canadians purchased the railroads, they had the foresight to take the risk and now it’s about to pay off, so as I think about maybe some good will come out of the greed of the oil industry the high fuel prices may bring back jobs.

cook2712 read my blog view my photos
May 23, 2008 | 9:57 AM

Ford, GM, and Chrysler have been building cars & trucks out of the U S of A since the 70's......why? Can anyone say U A W ????

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douglaschick21

My name is Douglas Chick, author, computer engineer, and creator of www.TheNetworkAdministrat
or.com a popular website for computer people.

Member Since: 1/27/2008